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[Music]

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this whole show the hidden true show

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started with a really

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big deep dive on the las vegas shooting

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so we still have a lot of our

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following is people that loved

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that deep dive and still follow the las

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vegas shooting you know for the most

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part it's been

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wrapped up for a lot of people they're

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still lingering questions about whether

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this guy truly acted alone etc but

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there's also some gun issues

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that of course arise from the las vegas

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shooting so

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why don't we start with just getting

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your thoughts about that shooting and

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you know the fact that bump stock was

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involved and the fact that he was able

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to

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sure well i mean uh he didn't really use

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the huge arsenal that he had i mean i'm

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still not 100 sure how many guns he used

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but if it was one or two guns

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uh the fact that he had a lot more guns

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didn't really seem to affect the outcome

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that was there

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uh you know as far as the bump stock

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goes obviously that allowed him to fire

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faster than he would have been able to

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probably fire otherwise but there's lots

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of ways that he could have produced a

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very similar result

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uh simply with a belt loop or whatever

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you just need something

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that kind of is going to be stationary

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as the

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gun recoils and goes back and forth

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there

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uh so you know even if they had banned

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bump stocks it's not really clear that

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the outcome would have been much

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different

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obviously the thing with bump stocks or

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these other methods

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is it's hard to aim the gun uh in this

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case it really didn't matter

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too much because he was just firing into

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a large crowd of people that was there

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um you know it was a very unusual case

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uh i assume

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that uh i mean i don't even know what

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motivated the guy yet

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uh to go and do it there's lots of

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questions that we don't know

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uh from that attack um but

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you know in terms of how to stop it

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that probably would have been about the

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most difficult one to go and stop that i

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know

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uh but the thing is this guy apparently

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had lots of other methods to go and kill

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people he had wired up his car

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uh with uh with explosives uh apparently

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the amount of explosives that he had in

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his car would have taken out a fairly

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large area a good portion of a block

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if he had driven that into uh

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the crowd that was there or near the

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crowd a lot of people would have been

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harmed

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in that way the guys seem to have

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technical experience

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even if one kind of banned bump stocks

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it seems pretty clear from the types of

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arrangements and things that the guy had

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made on his own

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uh he would have been able to go and

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easily make a bump stock a bump stock

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in any case is essentially two tubes

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slightly different in size one fits

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inside the other

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and a spring that's in it uh

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so given the technical expertise that

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that guy

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showed uh being able to go and put

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something like that together

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anyway would have seemed to have been a

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relatively trivial uh

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you know effort on his part so um

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yeah regarding bump stock am i right

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that didn't trump uh

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issue an executive order on bump stock

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or ultimately was there a law

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he he did he did

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have an executive order he had talked

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about having a law

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but the law that the democrats insisted

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on would have covered

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essentially all semi-automatic guns

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potentially

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and uh and he wanted something more

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narrow

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i mean the vast majority of guns owned

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in the united states are semi-automatic

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guns

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and he wants something more narrow uh

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that would cover

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the bump stocks and democrats were

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unwilling to negotiate

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on that and so he issued an executive

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order it's been tied up in courts

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since then uh because it's not really

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clear

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that in fact it seems unlikely that he

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had the

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power to go and do that but uh

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you know it's been tied up and we're

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still waiting the outcomes of the court

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cases

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so as we speak today your average person

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can go by

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bump stock or not uh well the companies

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that were producing it have kind of shut

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down

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uh doing it and

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you know you risk potentially coming out

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on the wrong end if

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somehow trump is successful in the court

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so uh yeah i mean as far as preventing

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the vegas shooting

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um every situation is so unique right

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when it comes to how the person acquired

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their guns and who they were and then

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aren't that unique i mean this was this

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was by far the most different case

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that i know of in terms of one of these

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mass public shootings

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uh so you know a large percentage of

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these people have bought the gun

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uh legitimately uh

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it's pretty clear that these people are

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trying to commit suicide in a way

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that's going to go and get them media

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attention

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uh these guys i'm sure this guy was no

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different in the sense that he planned

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this well in advance

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these killers it's really amazing the

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amount of time and effort that they put

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into planning these attacks

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uh six months is actually a fairly short

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window for the amount of planning that

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they put into these

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attacks you take something like the

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sandy hook attack

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uh the guy there was apparently planning

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the attack for two and a half years

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prior to the attack uh the police who

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had gone through and looked at

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what he had acquired uh you know he had

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done a report for himself that many

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police described as essentially a

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doctoral dissertation

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where he looked at mass public shootings

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over the previous 40 years

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i had gone so far as to graph out the

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relationship between

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the number of people killed in an attack

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and the amount of media coverage that

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they got

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uh apparently he had statements saying

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things like

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uh he wanted to go and kill more people

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than the norway killer

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had killed who had the most kills at

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that time

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six if you ignore the bombing deaths he

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had 67 people that he had shot to death

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which is more than the uh than the uh

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las vegas shooting um and uh

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you know so anyway those are often the

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common features

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these people go to places where their

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victims

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aren't able to go and defend themselves

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because

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their goal is to try to kill as many

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people as possible because

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they believe that the more people they

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kill the more media attention they're

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going to get that's essentially why

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the sandy hook killer for example had

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graphed out that relationship

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well that's definitely my analysis of

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the vegas shooter that uh you know he

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didn't leave a note

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but i think that the note was he wanted

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to be

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remembered as the most prolific mass

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shooter

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essentially in american history partly

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outdoing his father who was on the fbi's

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most wanted list

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um etc but that really was the objective

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his uh brother thinks that he was trying

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to

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seek retribution against the casinos

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that he had

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started losing large sums of money uh

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with

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but we see from his google searches that

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he was searching out

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other locations for the shooting fenway

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park

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uh downtown chicago the santa monica

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pier

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so that doesn't seem to that theory

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doesn't seem to hold

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water right so my theory is you just

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wanted to kill as many people as

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possible

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you know it's a murder-suicide which is

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a very common thing

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that you see the murder suicide this is

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mass murder suicide

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right well i mean at some point some

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place in the past

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uh i mean because people have obviously

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wanted to commit suicide forever

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uh some people realize that uh

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when they wanted to commit suicide they

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could do so in a way

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that other people would know that they

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were here and get

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news attention uh you know you can't

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help but read the diaries or other

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statements that these

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killers leave behind and

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you know they feel that they're

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unappreciated uh

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they want to commit suicide but they

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want people to know

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that they made an impact and even some

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people go so far as to say look

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even if the media doesn't mention my

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name i still might be able to be in the

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history books

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and uh you know it's really pathetic but

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that

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is you know so

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so i i i prepared for the interview as

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far as

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you know reading some uh some of your

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positions haven't

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fully read any of your books but to help

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us give some context

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as to what your view is i'm curious

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uh because i know you've written a lot

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about the fact that

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guns themselves can result in the

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reduction

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in violence is it do you support guns in

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america primarily because

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of the second amendment right that

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americans have that was given to us by

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our founders or

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simply as a matter of policy in other

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words if there was no second amendment

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nonetheless you'd say

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that's the right policy allow people to

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have guns yeah

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well i i never make second amendment

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arguments

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i don't make it based on right that's

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not what got me involved with this to

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begin with i kind of

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accidentally got involved in the debate

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but

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to me it's just a question of safety

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what types of things what types of

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policies will save the most lives will

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protect the most people

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anybody who's read my academic research

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knows that i think police are extremely

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important

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i think police are the single most

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important factor for reducing crime

289
00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:58,959
but police themselves understand that

290
00:10:02,949 --> 00:10:00,640
they virtually always arrive on the

291
00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:02,959
crime scene after the crimes occurred

292
00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:04,720
and the question is what should people

293
00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:06,160
do when they're having to confront a

294
00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:08,240
criminal by themselves and having

295
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:11,680
a gun turns out to be by far the safest

296
00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:13,519
course of action for people to take when

297
00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:15,360
they're confronted by a criminal

298
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:17,440
and it's particularly true for two

299
00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:18,800
groups of people

300
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:20,640
people who are most likely victims of

301
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,720
violent crime that overwhelmingly tends

302
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:24,720
to be poor blacks who live in high crime

303
00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:25,839
urban areas

304
00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:27,760
and people who are relatively weaker

305
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:29,200
physically women

306
00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:31,440
and the elderly you're almost always

307
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:32,880
talking about a male criminal

308
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:35,120
doing the attack and when a man is

309
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:36,240
attacking a woman

310
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,920
there's a larger strength difference

311
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:39,680
that exists there on average than when a

312
00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:41,680
man's attacking another man

313
00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,519
and the presence of a gun represents a

314
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:45,600
much bigger relative change in a woman's

315
00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:46,000
ability

316
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:47,760
to go and protect herself than it does

317
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:49,920
for a man so it's basically the most

318
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:52,160
vulnerable people in our society

319
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:54,320
who benefit the most from being able to

320
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:56,800
go and have a gun for protection

321
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,079
what if you could hypothetically banish

322
00:11:04,150 --> 00:11:02,160
all guns they don't they don't exist

323
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:04,160
they don't exist on earth

324
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:06,480
right would you say that would be a good

325
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:07,360
thing or

326
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,959
a bad thing well uh

327
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:12,480
i think it'd be kind of hard to make

328
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,160
sure that they disappear completely

329
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:16,480
obviously we've a lot of places have

330
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:17,360
tried to ban

331
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:20,399
guns either all guns or all handguns

332
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:21,839
one of the interesting things that you

333
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,480
see there is every single time

334
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:26,560
that either all guns or all handguns

335
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:28,959
have been banned murder rates go up

336
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,279
you'd think out of randomness once or

337
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:33,200
twice murder rates would go down or at

338
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:34,640
least stay the same

339
00:11:38,389 --> 00:11:36,560
but in fact every time they've gone up

340
00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:38,399
and usually by very large amounts

341
00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,519
there's

342
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:41,680
and you know people will say well look

343
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:43,200
uh we've tried it in

344
00:11:48,069 --> 00:11:46,399
washington dc and chicago

345
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,079
but those they'll say really weren't

346
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:50,800
fair tests because unless you ban guns

347
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:51,680
every place

348
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:53,680
uh criminals can still get guns from

349
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:55,680
maryland or virginia or they can go and

350
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:57,519
get them from the rest of illinois or

351
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,720
indiana

352
00:12:02,510 --> 00:12:00,320
the thing is they could get those guns

353
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,520
from those places to begin with

354
00:12:05,509 --> 00:12:03,760
[Music]

355
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:05,519
that may explain why the murder rate

356
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:07,680
didn't go down as they were predicting

357
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:09,279
but it doesn't explain why you have

358
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:10,639
these big increases

359
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,360
in murder rates after guns are banned

360
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:15,040
and

361
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:18,639
world you have whole nations that have

362
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:19,519
banned guns

363
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,480
you have uh island nations that have

364
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:23,279
banned guns

365
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,200
where you don't have some neighbor to go

366
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:26,880
and blame and yet

367
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:29,839
each and every time you see murder rates

368
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:32,079
go up usually by very large amounts and

369
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:32,720
there's

370
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:34,639
seems to be a pretty simple explanation

371
00:12:39,430 --> 00:12:36,639
for that and that is when you go

372
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,440
and you pass a regulation like a gun ban

373
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:42,079
that primarily disarms law-abiding

374
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,200
citizens and not

375
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,600
criminals you make it easier for

376
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:47,680
criminals to go and commit crimes

377
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:51,200
um and uh you know you look at a country

378
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:52,079
like mexico

379
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:55,920
for example mexico since 1972 has only

380
00:13:01,269 --> 00:12:58,399
had one gun store in the country

381
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:01,279
uh the most powerful gun you've been

382
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:04,399
able to buy since 1972 legally

383
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:08,240
is 22 caliber short run round rifle

384
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:12,800
um in mexico uh in 2018

385
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:16,399
uh they only granted uh licenses

386
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:19,600
to 3182 people

387
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:23,040
to go and uh legally own a gun

388
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:24,720
basically sorry is it essentially like a

389
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:26,240
hunting rifle

390
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:30,160
any gun the most powerful gun

391
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:33,440
is a 22 caliber rifle gotcha

392
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,880
and uh uh i mean there are

393
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:38,240
they do allow some people to have

394
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:40,000
handguns and things like that but

395
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:40,639
they're

396
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:43,680
basically 22 caliber handguns that you

397
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:44,639
have

398
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:48,480
and uh you know it's um

399
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,920
you look at that and uh and yet mexico

400
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,240
has a murder rate that's about six times

401
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,160
or so higher than the murder rate that

402
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:57,920
we have in the united states the point

403
00:14:03,590 --> 00:13:58,160
is

404
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:03,600
bring in weapons from around the world

405
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:06,240
just as they go and they bring in the

406
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:07,760
drugs that they bring into the united

407
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:08,959
states

408
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,480
they're not getting these guns from the

409
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:13,040
united states despite a lot of claims to

410
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,079
the contrary

411
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,399
you look at a recent seven year period

412
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,839
uh the mexican government had

413
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:19,839
confiscated something like 13

414
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:23,120
000 hand grenades uh from drug gangs

415
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,000
there

416
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,720
they're not buying hand grenades from

417
00:14:31,990 --> 00:14:28,959
gun stores in the united states

418
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:32,000
uh they're bringing them in from all

419
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:33,519
around the world

420
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,760
and uh a lot of the guns that they steal

421
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:37,440
are from the mexican military that's

422
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,920
there

423
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,519
you know and the same thing is true in

424
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:41,600
the united states the major

425
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:44,079
source of illegal guns in the united

426
00:14:48,150 --> 00:14:45,519
states are drug dealers

427
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,160
i mean it's not like it's not like a

428
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:50,399
drug dealer can go to the police

429
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,399
and say look this other gang stole my

430
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,560
drugs can you help us get them back

431
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,079
they have to essentially set up their

432
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,760
own little militaries in order to

433
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,600
protect that valuable property

434
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,600
if i could go and click my fingers and

435
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:04,000
cause all guns in the united states to

436
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,519
disappear

437
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:08,560
and let's say all illegal drugs how long

438
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:10,079
do you think it would be before illegal

439
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:11,440
drugs started coming back into the

440
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:12,720
united states

441
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:15,600
if you're in el paso texas 20 minutes

442
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,399
and how long

443
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,880
before they'd go and bring in uh the

444
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,079
weapons to protect that

445
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:22,000
extremely valuable property that they'd

446
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:23,839
have they'd be bringing them in at the

447
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:26,880
same time so walk me through

448
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,639
australia because that's the one that's

449
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:30,320
people seem to point to

450
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:33,440
as having successfully gotten rid of

451
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:36,639
guns so i i presume you've done quite a

452
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:38,399
bit of studying of australia

453
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:40,079
can you just kind of walk us through

454
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:41,360
what was the program that they

455
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:42,560
implemented to get rid of them

456
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:45,759
and how are they doing now sure well

457
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:49,759
uh in 1996 and 97 australia had a gun

458
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:50,880
buyback

459
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:53,600
there they bought back something over a

460
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,079
quarter

461
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:56,079
of the guns that were legally owned in

462
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:57,360
the country there

463
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:00,959
and destroyed them uh guns weren't

464
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,600
banned

465
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,160
there but they had the licensing system

466
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:06,160
and stuff that they put in place

467
00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:08,320
i require that people have to have safes

468
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:10,000
at home in order to go and lock up the

469
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:11,680
guns that they have

470
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:17,990
people went out and bought guns again

471
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:19,680
afterwards and

472
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,720
um by the time you get to about 2010 the

473
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,199
gun ownership rate in australia

474
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:27,360
was actually higher than it was before

475
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,199
the ban went to effect

476
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:32,480
now you the thing is you know what

477
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,680
people often do

478
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,440
when they make a comparison about

479
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:37,600
australia is they look at the before

480
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,639
and after average let's say firearm

481
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:41,839
homicide rate

482
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:45,519
or firearm suicide rate and they'll say

483
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:46,560
look the after

484
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:49,600
average is about 50 or 60

485
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:52,480
lower than the before average but it's

486
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,880
really

487
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,639
statistical malpractice that they're

488
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:55,920
doing here and the reason is

489
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:59,360
is that firearm homicide rates and

490
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:01,199
firearm suicide rates were

491
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:04,480
falling in almost a straight line

492
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,919
for 15 years prior to the buyback that

493
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,880
they had

494
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,039
and they continued to fall afterwards

495
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:12,880
but at a slower rate let's just take a

496
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:14,799
simple example let's say

497
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,959
it had been a perfectly straight line

498
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,280
falling over the whole period of time

499
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,120
you could have picked any point along

500
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,039
that line and the after average is going

501
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,640
to be below the before average but if

502
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,559
it's a perfectly straight line

503
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:27,919
and you're looking at it you're going to

504
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:29,919
say what impact

505
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:33,039
did the buyback have on those types of

506
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,280
instances that you're looking at if it's

507
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:37,120
a perfectly straight line you'd say

508
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,039
well it was falling but it was falling

509
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:41,039
before there's no change

510
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,320
you know you think you'd want to look is

511
00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:44,480
it falling at a faster rate or a slower

512
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,320
rate or is there some type of

513
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,559
discontinuity that occurred there in the

514
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,880
line in order to determine whether it

515
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:52,160
had an impact

516
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,360
in fact when you look at it the rate

517
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,440
that either of those were declining

518
00:18:03,029 --> 00:17:59,520
actually slowed down

519
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,039
after uh after the buyback occurred

520
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:04,880
and with regard to suicides what you

521
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:07,600
really want to look at is total suicides

522
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,039
and total suicides didn't fall uh

523
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:13,280
there's no relative change there that

524
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:14,480
had occurred

525
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:17,120
over time before the buyback people were

526
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,799
switching into other ways of going

527
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:20,400
committing suicide

528
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:23,679
but there wasn't a you know you have to

529
00:18:27,029 --> 00:18:26,160
you have to presumably you care not just

530
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,039
about how

531
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:28,880
people commit suicide but the total

532
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:30,240
number of suicides

533
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,520
that are going on there and so it's

534
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:35,440
very misleading in terms of either of

535
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,039
those two and

536
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,080
you know you can compare uh

537
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:43,039
australia to new zealand which australia

538
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,799
new zealand didn't have any change in

539
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:47,120
its gun rules at that same time

540
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,760
and you know it had a similar pattern in

541
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,280
terms of mass public shootings

542
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,960
afterwards compared to what it was

543
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,080
beforehand

544
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,200
i can look around the world um you know

545
00:19:01,190 --> 00:18:59,120
there's this claim often that the united

546
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:01,200
states has a disproportionate number of

547
00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:02,320
mass public shootings

548
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,760
that's simply false uh

549
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:08,160
it's actually based the claim pretty

550
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,840
much got started by a

551
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:11,840
study by a professor at the university

552
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:12,960
of alabama

553
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:15,520
who claimed that 31 of the world's mass

554
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,960
public shooters were in the united

555
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,919
states

556
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,840
probably got more worldwide attention

557
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:21,840
for that study than any other academic

558
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:22,240
study

559
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:24,320
done this century the thing is he

560
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,720
wouldn't release his list of cases

561
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:29,280
took almost five years before he was

562
00:19:31,830 --> 00:19:31,039
finally forced to release it i had

563
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:31,840
published

564
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:34,240
an academic paper that kind of forced

565
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:36,960
him to finally release his list of cases

566
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:39,760
and what you found is that he had made

567
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,039
up his own definition

568
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:43,360
of mass public shootings it looked at

569
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:44,080
cases

570
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:47,360
that only involved one shooter and had

571
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,760
missed

572
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:50,400
literally thousands of mass public

573
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,799
shooting cases outside the united states

574
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:54,559
that fit the definition that he claimed

575
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,760
that he was using

576
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,679
and he had over counted the cases in the

577
00:20:03,430 --> 00:19:59,520
united states and that when

578
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,440
you went through and actually used the

579
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:05,360
data set that people at the university

580
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:07,200
of maryland had put together

581
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:09,039
uh what you found is that the united

582
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:10,320
states only made up about

583
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,880
one percent of the world's mass public

584
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:14,240
shooters

585
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,919
and uh and we

586
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:19,440
make about almost five percent of the

587
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:21,679
world population so we're way below the

588
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,480
average

589
00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:24,640
in many countries that have stricter gun

590
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:25,760
control than

591
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:29,280
australia has uh have had higher mass

592
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:31,440
public shooting death rates or rates of

593
00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:33,679
attacks in the united states france

594
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,280
for example during the eight years of

595
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,840
the obama presidency just in one year

596
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,360
2015

597
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,840
had more casualties from mass public

598
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:45,520
shootings than the united states had

599
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:47,120
during the entire eight years of the

600
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,720
obama presidency

601
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,960
and a per capita rate which is what you

602
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,960
have to do to make comparisons across

603
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:54,000
countries

604
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:58,000
uh what you find is that france

605
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,039
finland norway russia

606
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,919
switzerland uh those are just major

607
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,360
countries you have lots of smaller

608
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,360
countries like serbia and what have you

609
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,840
have higher death rates from mass public

610
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,679
shooting attacks than the united states

611
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:13,120
i mean europe

612
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:15,600
france basically bans semi-automatic

613
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,559
guns

614
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:19,120
uh and yet they had the worst mass

615
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,720
public shooting comparing just the

616
00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:22,480
united states and europe

617
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:26,799
uh in november uh 2015

618
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:29,360
you had the concert hall shooting where

619
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,000
130

620
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,360
people were killed uh you know

621
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:35,600
you look at the norway attack they had

622
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:36,720
the one attack as we

623
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:38,000
talked about earlier well these you know

624
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,600
these mass shootings i think say a lot

625
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,280
more about the mental health

626
00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:43,520
issues than they do about gun issues for

627
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:46,000
me you know when you talk about the true

628
00:21:55,510 --> 00:21:53,590
well um you know obviously

629
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,520
there as we talked about before and as

630
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,640
you mentioned uh

631
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:59,360
there's this desire to commit suicide on

632
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:00,880
these individuals parts

633
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:04,000
yeah one can go and i guess define that

634
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:07,039
as mental illness

635
00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:09,200
and in fact when you look at the data

636
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:11,039
what you find is that about half of

637
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:11,440
these

638
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:13,280
individuals have been seeing mental

639
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,039
health care professionals

640
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,760
uh within about six months or so of

641
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:19,280
their attacks one of the things that's

642
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:20,480
interesting

643
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:23,919
is how in not one single one of those

644
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,880
attacks

645
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:26,320
did those mental health care

646
00:22:31,029 --> 00:22:28,559
professionals identify those individuals

647
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:31,039
as a danger to themselves or others

648
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,320
um you know even some case

649
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,760
some of these cases you're talking about

650
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,840
world recognized experts in mental

651
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,960
health that we're

652
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:41,039
looking at these people uh the santa

653
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:42,799
barbara killer

654
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:45,840
for example he had been seeing several

655
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:48,320
mental health care professionals one at

656
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:49,760
children's hospital

657
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:52,480
in los angeles was considered a world

658
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,200
recognized

659
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:56,240
expert in terms of violence by young

660
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,960
people

661
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:58,960
and yet he didn't identify the

662
00:23:02,789 --> 00:23:01,200
individual one thing you find with these

663
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:02,799
these killers is they tend to be

664
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:04,320
relatively smart

665
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:06,159
you read the diaries of the santa

666
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:07,679
barbara killer and

667
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:11,039
you know he was being very gleeful about

668
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,840
how

669
00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:13,679
you know he knew what they wanted him to

670
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:15,280
say and he would go and say

671
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:16,720
what they wanted him to hear and the

672
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:18,240
mental health care professionals would

673
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:19,919
basically just say

674
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,159
you know just take him at his word

675
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:24,880
whatever he was telling

676
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:27,440
so how do you feel about a health and

677
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:28,559
some type of

678
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,760
health exam as a requirement to legally

679
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:34,000
acquiring a gun

680
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,919
well i mean as we just said if

681
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,280
if these mental health care

682
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,799
professionals would have been able to

683
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:42,320
identify

684
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,880
some of these guys beforehand that would

685
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:46,000
have been nice

686
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:49,360
uh i i don't think that that's going to

687
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:50,000
be particularly

688
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,679
helpful i mean if you want to go and

689
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:53,919
give people more mental health care

690
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:56,400
for for general reasons that's great go

691
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,360
and do that

692
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,760
okay i'm sure we can go and have a

693
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,520
public debate about how much we want to

694
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:02,880
go and increase

695
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:04,880
uh mental health care in the united

696
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:06,960
states but the notion that you're going

697
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:08,159
to be able to go

698
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:10,000
and identify these individuals

699
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:11,200
beforehand

700
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,840
as a danger to themselves look you look

701
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,880
at countries like

702
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:17,039
france france has a mental health care

703
00:24:19,510 --> 00:24:18,880
examination before you're able to go and

704
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,520
get a gun

705
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:21,360
it takes about a year process to be able

706
00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,120
to go and get it

707
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:26,159
germany has about the same process

708
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:29,279
takes about a year germany has much

709
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:30,559
worse school shootings

710
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:33,679
than we've had three of the six worst

711
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:35,840
uh mass public school shootings in the

712
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:37,919
united states are in the world between

713
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,240
the united states and europe have taken

714
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:42,960
place in germany since 2000

715
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:45,279
and uh well maybe maybe there would have

716
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:46,080
been more

717
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:47,679
but for the health exam i mean that's

718
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:49,600
one of the difficulties right

719
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:52,799
yeah but the the thing you have to ask

720
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:53,440
yourself

721
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,919
also is where are these attacks

722
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:57,120
occurring

723
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,200
and i think one common feature because

724
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,039
the thing is

725
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,080
the issue is what happens if we fail to

726
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:06,000
identify these individuals

727
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:09,919
okay uh and the common feature

728
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,960
that you see in about 94 of the mass

729
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:15,120
public shootings in the united states

730
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:17,440
as well as all the mass public shootings

731
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,480
in europe

732
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,960
is that they take place in areas where

733
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,159
guns are banned

734
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,919
where people aren't able to go and

735
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,440
defend themselves

736
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,679
you know these guys may be crazy in some

737
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:28,720
sense but they're not

738
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:32,400
stupid the successful ones anyway uh

739
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:34,640
they go to places where they don't

740
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:36,080
believe their victims are going to be

741
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,840
able to defend themselves because they

742
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:40,000
want to kill as you mentioned earlier

743
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,080
as many people as possible if they go to

744
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:43,760
a place where their victims are

745
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:44,880
defenseless

746
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:46,159
they think they're going to be able to

747
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,320
go and kill more people you read

748
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,799
the diaries or other things from people

749
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:52,880
like the aurora batman movie theater

750
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,320
shooter or others

751
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:57,600
um and it's clear that they take into

752
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:58,559
consideration

753
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,600
whether or not somebody there with a gun

754
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:04,240
might be able to stop them uh you know

755
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,120
you look at the

756
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,360
batman aurora movie theater shooter

757
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,600
there were seven movie theaters showing

758
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,200
the batman premiere

759
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,520
within a 20-minute drive of the killer's

760
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,400
apartment

761
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,720
only one of those movie theaters banned

762
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,039
permitted concealed handguns

763
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:21,679
that's the one he went to you look at

764
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:22,080
the

765
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,600
louisiana

766
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,840
similar story you look at the mall

767
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:29,840
shootings in omaha nebraska

768
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:32,559
or kansas city or salt lake city or

769
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,080
portland oregon

770
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:36,240
similar types of stores you know you

771
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,080
have uh

772
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:41,520
eight enclosed malls in omaha nebraska

773
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:44,080
only one of them posted signs banning

774
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:45,840
permanent concealed handguns

775
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,840
that's where the killer went you see

776
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:49,279
these same types of

777
00:26:53,269 --> 00:26:51,840
stories time after time well i i think a

778
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:53,279
good example of what you're saying as

779
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,279
far as the deterrent effect

780
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:57,600
is all of the looting that we've seen

781
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:58,799
going on

782
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,880
and there was a lot of concern that the

783
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:02,799
looting was going to extend beyond the

784
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,360
stores

785
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,440
into wealthy neighborhoods particularly

786
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:06,880
here in los angeles i know people in

787
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,919
beverly hills uh

788
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:09,679
the police there were on high alert and

789
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,679
so on and there was a lot of

790
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,520
rumors going around that it was gonna

791
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:15,200
extend to

792
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,799
uh the looting of homes it didn't happen

793
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:21,360
and i think i would pause it and you

794
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:22,480
probably would too

795
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:25,279
that the primary reason is they know

796
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,480
that a lot of these homeowners have guns

797
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,480
i mean there's lots of comparisons you

798
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:32,720
can make across countries for example we

799
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,520
have data

800
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:35,440
on what's called hot burglary rates

801
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,960
these are burglaries that occur while

802
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,960
the residents are in the dwelling

803
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:41,200
uh just make comparison between the

804
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:42,720
united states and the uk

805
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,080
for example um the uk

806
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:48,480
has a burglary rate about twice the

807
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:49,279
burglar rate

808
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,240
in the united states and 60 percent of

809
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:54,159
the time that burglaries occur

810
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,640
in the uk they occur while the residents

811
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:57,840
are at home

812
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,840
in the united states only about 13

813
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,840
percent of burglaries occur while the

814
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,360
residents are in the home

815
00:28:07,029 --> 00:28:05,440
why is that well they've done surveys

816
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:07,039
the rand corporation

817
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:09,279
uh has done a survey others have done

818
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,320
surveys

819
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,960
and what they find is that burglars in

820
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:14,159
the united states

821
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,760
spend about twice as long casing at home

822
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,440
uh compared to their british

823
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:21,440
counterparts and when asked why do you

824
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,159
spend

825
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:24,399
so much time casing homes in the united

826
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:25,440
states

827
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:27,760
the explanation that they give is that

828
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:30,000
they're worried about being shot

829
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,919
which kind of fits your point that was

830
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,600
there in

831
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:36,240
in the uk that's not their concern

832
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,600
they're not worried about what the

833
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,440
homeowner is going to be able to do to

834
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,559
them so they don't really

835
00:28:44,230 --> 00:28:42,720
care whether the homeowners are there

836
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:44,240
when they go and break in and so they

837
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:45,760
don't spend the time

838
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:47,600
going and trying to figure out whether

839
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:49,440
somebody might be there before they go

840
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,520
and break into the home

841
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,880
so here's a type of shooting that i've

842
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,640
been really focused on lately and really

843
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:56,080
curious to get your

844
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,080
take on and that's police shootings and

845
00:29:04,149 --> 00:29:02,720
it appears this is nowhere close to my

846
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,159
expertise so this is just me

847
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,480
casually reading like anyone else has as

848
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:07,919
a result of

849
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:10,240
george floyd and although that wasn't a

850
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:11,760
shooting but

851
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,919
the various shootings and so on is that

852
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,520
in the u.s

853
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:17,600
there's per year and it's been a pretty

854
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:19,440
consistent number over the last 10 years

855
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:21,520
a thousand

856
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:24,399
people have died at the hands of a

857
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:25,279
police shooting

858
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,039
in the u.s that means every day for all

859
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,720
the stuff we hear about in the news

860
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:30,240
about these particular cases

861
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:33,200
every day apparently there's three

862
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,200
people being shot dead

863
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:37,440
by police in america and when you

864
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,720
compare those statistics to other

865
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:39,600
countries

866
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:43,679
i think the closest may have been canada

867
00:29:48,549 --> 00:29:45,840
and we're like 10 times more than canada

868
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:48,559
i mean significant difference in america

869
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:49,760
versus other countries

870
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,840
police shootings what do you make of

871
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:54,240
that

872
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,880
well a couple things to make of it we

873
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,520
have a

874
00:30:01,029 --> 00:30:00,480
drug gang problem in the united states

875
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,039
and

876
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,480
uh you know you have

877
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,399
over half the murders in the united

878
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:07,919
states take place

879
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,799
in two percent of the counties and if

880
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,720
you ever see a murder map for those two

881
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:14,159
percent of the counties you're going to

882
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:15,120
find

883
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,360
about two-thirds of their murders take

884
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:19,520
place within ten block areas

885
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:21,679
within those two percent of the counties

886
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,840
so murders in the united states are very

887
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:25,440
heavily concentrated

888
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:27,520
in relatively tiny areas and a lot of

889
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:28,720
police shootings

890
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,679
are taking place in those areas one

891
00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:33,200
comment because we've looked

892
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,840
very closely at police shootings uh

893
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:37,679
we've put together a data set where

894
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,120
we've identified

895
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,919
uh many characteristics you know was the

896
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:44,000
person armed or not were they involved

897
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:45,760
in a commission of a crime what type of

898
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,600
crime were they involved with

899
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,679
we also have information you know where

900
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:51,039
the police were wearing

901
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:54,559
uh body cameras uh we know

902
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:56,480
we know the race of the officer we know

903
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:57,679
the race of the

904
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:00,720
uh person who the who was shot

905
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:03,360
what you find is that overwhelmingly uh

906
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:05,360
the people who were shot were armed

907
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,840
okay uh you're talking about like about

908
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,120
almost 90

909
00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:11,760
of these cases a lot of the rest of them

910
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,600
were actually involved in the commission

911
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:15,600
of a violent crime at the point when

912
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:17,279
they were shot

913
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,320
i think the media is largely responsible

914
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:22,080
for the violence that we're seeing right

915
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,559
now

916
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:25,039
in these cities because they've really

917
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,200
given people a misimpression

918
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,919
of of police shootings so let me give

919
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:32,000
you an example on this

920
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,440
when you look at white officers shooting

921
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,039
black suspects

922
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,080
that rate is actually slightly lower

923
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,480
than the rate that black officers shoot

924
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:44,159
black suspects

925
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,679
but when you look at the individual

926
00:31:49,669 --> 00:31:47,679
cases in the news coverage

927
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:49,679
people who don't would have no way of

928
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,120
knowing that because

929
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,480
38 of the time when a white officer

930
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:56,080
shoots a black suspect

931
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:58,559
it gets national news coverage where the

932
00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:00,559
race of the officer and the race of the

933
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:01,679
suspect is

934
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:04,000
is mentioned in the news article when a

935
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:05,120
black officer

936
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:08,480
shoots a black suspect only six percent

937
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,720
of those news stories mention the race

938
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:12,320
of the officer in the race of the

939
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:13,360
suspect

940
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,279
when a black officer shoots a white

941
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,600
suspect zero percent

942
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:19,919
of the news stories national news

943
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:21,039
stories

944
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:24,720
those cases

945
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:27,360
and it really you know whatever the

946
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,080
motivation

947
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:31,120
is for why they decide which cases to go

948
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:34,159
and give news coverage to

949
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:36,320
um it really gives people a

950
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:38,720
misimpression i can't blame people

951
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:40,799
who really believe that there's a

952
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,320
systemic problem

953
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:44,480
with white officers shooting black

954
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:45,600
suspects

955
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:49,120
when you know the media by a huge ratio

956
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:52,799
of 38 to six uh covers

957
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,960
you know the race of the white officer

958
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,279
shooting black suspects and pretty much

959
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,000
ignores the vast majority of stories

960
00:33:02,389 --> 00:33:02,000
when a black officer shoots a black or a

961
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:02,399
black

962
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,799
officer shoots a white yeah that's

963
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,240
really fascinating

964
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:08,080
numbers and you know i've been making

965
00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:09,600
the point again and again about

966
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,600
police brutality i'm certainly willing

967
00:33:14,389 --> 00:33:13,440
to go there that there's a police

968
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,399
brutality

969
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:16,240
issue that needs to be addressed to some

970
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:17,440
extent but

971
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:21,760
the this case

972
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:24,880
the minneapolis case the guy officer

973
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:25,840
obviously

974
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:28,880
was at fault he did something wrong the

975
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:30,559
other officer should have stopped him

976
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:32,960
there's no problem with that and the

977
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:34,240
thing is though

978
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:38,320
the media treats cases like atlanta

979
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:41,519
or uh kenosha or other places

980
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,120
as the same and they're not the same

981
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,519
so in atlanta which kind of was the next

982
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:48,880
shooting right after

983
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,080
uh uh the minneapolis case

984
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:55,200
you had this brooks guy uh who had

985
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,960
kind of passed out because he was

986
00:34:02,389 --> 00:33:59,279
inebriated in a drive-through

987
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:02,399
fast through fast food restaurant line

988
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:03,519
at a wendy's

989
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,640
uh you know burger place

990
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:09,280
uh the police had come there this guy

991
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,879
was much bigger than either of the

992
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,240
police officers he was

993
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:14,240
easily more than a foot taller than

994
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:16,000
either the police officers he must have

995
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,119
weighed at least

996
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:19,520
70 pounds or so more than either the

997
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:20,800
police officers

998
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,079
he was obviously inebriated the police

999
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:26,320
textbook case of being extremely

1000
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:27,839
courteous to him

1001
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,960
uh you know went through the sobriety

1002
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:31,919
text

1003
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:33,520
tests that was there the guy was

1004
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:35,359
obviously failing it

1005
00:34:39,909 --> 00:34:37,839
but uh they did nothing wrong and then

1006
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:39,919
he attacked them

1007
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:43,040
he was because of his much bigger size

1008
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:45,520
he was able to go and grab the taser

1009
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:47,679
from one of the officers that was there

1010
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,079
uh

1011
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:50,240
he fired at once was going to fire it

1012
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:51,280
again at another

1013
00:34:55,349 --> 00:34:54,290
officer when the officer shot him

1014
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,359
[Music]

1015
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:57,119
you know it's hard to think of any

1016
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:59,359
training by any police in the country

1017
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,480
that would have had those

1018
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:02,960
officers behave differently than they

1019
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,359
actually did behave in that situation

1020
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,240
but the officer who shot him was fired

1021
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,320
from the atlanta police department

1022
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:12,720
and then he's been charged with felony

1023
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:13,520
murder

1024
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:16,160
and if he was convicted which i severely

1025
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:17,520
doubt that he will

1026
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:20,560
um he would face the death penalty uh

1027
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:24,240
in in georgia um but you know they

1028
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,200
rarely show

1029
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:28,160
much of the video from that uh it's a

1030
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:29,119
narrative there

1031
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:31,680
that just implies that you had a white

1032
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,240
officer

1033
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:34,720
shooting a black that's something

1034
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:36,880
systemic that's going on there

1035
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:39,680
uh you know the kenosha case is similar

1036
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:41,040
and we could go through

1037
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:42,800
uh many of the other cases that are

1038
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:44,960
there you know they all involve

1039
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:48,240
uh an individual either fighting back

1040
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:49,440
against police or

1041
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:52,079
not doing what police ask them to do so

1042
00:36:03,990 --> 00:35:53,040
you

1043
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,000
attacking police

1044
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,119
and not following instruction

1045
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:09,440
no that's exactly right i mean there's

1046
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:10,720
we have this narrative

1047
00:36:14,069 --> 00:36:13,680
where the saying is that blacks have

1048
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:14,079
this

1049
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,119
talk with their kids about how to behave

1050
00:36:20,390 --> 00:36:19,920
with police but that's somehow unique

1051
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:20,400
but

1052
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:23,440
you know my kids i tell them if a police

1053
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:25,040
officer gives you orders

1054
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:27,280
if he tells you to get on the ground or

1055
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:28,480
do something else

1056
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,960
you do what the officer says it's not

1057
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:32,560
something that only blacks

1058
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:35,359
give their kids advice on how to behave

1059
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:36,880
it's something that

1060
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,720
you know you have to learn how to go and

1061
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:40,400
deal with the police officer police

1062
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:42,240
officer tells you to keep your hands on

1063
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,200
the steering wheel

1064
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,839
when he's there uh that's what you do

1065
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:47,839
yeah well it's common sense

1066
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:50,720
and unfortunately in the in the black

1067
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:52,560
community we have a distinct

1068
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:55,680
absence of of black fathers

1069
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:57,839
in the home to teach their children

1070
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:59,680
these things so i was taught the same

1071
00:37:02,069 --> 00:37:00,720
thing by my father

1072
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:02,079
i don't have children but i will teach

1073
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:03,520
them the same thing that you're teaching

1074
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:04,480
your children

1075
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,920
of course that's an important thing for

1076
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:07,359
parents i mean it's kind of common sense

1077
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,320
and obvious but

1078
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:10,160
as you point out every parent should be

1079
00:37:14,069 --> 00:37:11,839
teaching the child that

1080
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:14,079
uh and it's children who have parents in

1081
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,440
the home and good parents

1082
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:17,280
around the chiefs in that who are going

1083
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:19,599
to know it others

1084
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,720
partly what's happened is in part

1085
00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:24,640
because of the news coverage

1086
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,240
like i was just talking about what types

1087
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,560
of cases get national news coverage and

1088
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:30,079
who knows what's going through the

1089
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:32,079
reporters minds for why they think it's

1090
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,599
more of a news story

1091
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,280
when a white officer shoots a black

1092
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:37,680
suspect than a black officer

1093
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:40,400
shooting a black suspect uh but for

1094
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:42,000
whatever the reason it creates this

1095
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:42,960
narrative

1096
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:45,599
and and people get angry about that and

1097
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:46,320
so you have

1098
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:49,520
people who may feel that an officer even

1099
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:50,000
when he's

1100
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:52,240
not racist might be racist simply

1101
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:53,040
because

1102
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,520
he's going and dealing with the black at

1103
00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:56,880
that situation

1104
00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,160
and and so i think it's caused problems

1105
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,160
in many ways the type of

1106
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:04,400
national coverage that we get on these

1107
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,520
issues yeah the

1108
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,160
the presumption that simply because it

1109
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:10,000
was a white shooting a black that it was

1110
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,280
racist

1111
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:13,119
is a very dangerous presumption but

1112
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:14,640
that's the presumption that exists

1113
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:17,440
in america and it seems like people are

1114
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:19,119
buying into it even though we have zero

1115
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:20,480
evidence that these incidents we've been

1116
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,760
talking about were based on race

1117
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,599
you don't even know if the minneapolis

1118
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:27,200
case was racist

1119
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:29,920
the officer behaved improperly we know

1120
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:30,400
that he

1121
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:32,960
he did something that was wrong but why

1122
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,680
he did it

1123
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,440
and they probably knew each other they i

1124
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:37,440
don't know if that was ever a suspect

1125
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:40,960
they had had worked at the same place

1126
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:42,800
for a while so apparently they did know

1127
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:44,560
each other uh

1128
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:46,960
but there's no evidence that i've seen

1129
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:49,040
presented by anybody that this officer

1130
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:50,000
was racist

1131
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,520
no but we're all supposed to just assume

1132
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:53,200
it which leads to a question since

1133
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:54,079
you've been i

1134
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:55,280
didn't realize you've been doing this

1135
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,079
this deep study into police shootings

1136
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:01,280
so um if race was a motivation in one of

1137
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:02,480
these shootings i would imagine that

1138
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:04,400
would ratchet it up as far as

1139
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:06,640
uh the crime you know a hate crime etc

1140
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,040
so if the police officer was motivated

1141
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:11,359
by racism i don't know this for sure but

1142
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:12,320
i would think that could

1143
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,000
change the sentencing guidelines in your

1144
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:19,040
studies are you aware of any

1145
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:20,560
police shooting cases where it was

1146
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:22,320
affirmatively determined that yes

1147
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:26,000
race was the reason behind the shooting

1148
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,240
not not in the years that we've looked

1149
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,560
at you know i assume in the past there

1150
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:32,640
may have been cases like that

1151
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,480
i have no problem believing that that's

1152
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,720
the case but it's

1153
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,800
it's i think you'd be really

1154
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,720
hard-pressed to provide any evidence

1155
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:42,000
that this is systemic

1156
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,079
in any way or even that it's something

1157
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:46,160
that you can measure

1158
00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:49,200
so what about though you pointed this

1159
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:49,520
out

1160
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:51,760
that i think you said 90 of the

1161
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:52,800
shootings involved

1162
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:55,599
the victim having a gun or maybe they

1163
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:56,160
thought the

1164
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:58,000
arm they could have a knife or something

1165
00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:00,000
like that being being armed

1166
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:01,920
so one thought that i've had in trying

1167
00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,440
to understand and

1168
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,599
explain you know why we could have so

1169
00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:07,440
many more shootings here in the u.s is

1170
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:08,640
that in the us

1171
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:11,839
there are so many guns that police are

1172
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,200
more in fear

1173
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:14,880
that the person either they know they

1174
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:16,160
have a gun or they think that they could

1175
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:16,880
have a gun

1176
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:19,440
compared to other countries so is that a

1177
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:20,480
fair

1178
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,640
possible explanation for us having more

1179
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:24,400
shootings is that we have so many guns

1180
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:25,839
that police here are just simply

1181
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,480
in more fear for their own lives no i

1182
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,079
don't think so i think

1183
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,760
again you have to go and look to see

1184
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,839
where a lot of these police shootings

1185
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,240
are and they tend to be in these areas

1186
00:40:40,309 --> 00:40:38,000
where there's a lot of violence

1187
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:40,319
occurring to begin with and that's

1188
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:41,119
basically

1189
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,640
areas where you have a lot of gang

1190
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,720
violence that's there these police

1191
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,200
look the united states has a worse drug

1192
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,440
gang problem than a lot of countries do

1193
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,200
and there's reasons why we can go and

1194
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:52,560
talk about that

1195
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:55,680
but um you know you have

1196
00:41:00,630 --> 00:40:59,040
uh you have to ask why we have a worse

1197
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:00,640
drug game problems but in those

1198
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:03,280
areas police when they're dealing with

1199
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,720
drug gangs where they're dealing with

1200
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,240
the fallout from them

1201
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:08,880
uh are facing risky situations and they

1202
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:09,520
fire but

1203
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:12,079
i'll give you one example just to kind

1204
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:13,040
of uh

1205
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:14,800
deal directly with your point and that

1206
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,150
in many states when a police officer

1207
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,000
pulls over a car

1208
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,000
for somebody who has a concealed handgun

1209
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,920
permit when they put in the license

1210
00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:28,000
plate in their computer it will come up

1211
00:41:31,829 --> 00:41:29,359
whether the person

1212
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,839
has a concealed handgun permit and what

1213
00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:33,839
you find if you talk to police

1214
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:36,560
is that they're relieved to know that

1215
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:38,400
the person has a concealed handgun

1216
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:40,720
permit because they know how law-abiding

1217
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:43,520
those individuals are those people lose

1218
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:44,720
their permits for

1219
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:46,960
any firearms related violation at

1220
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,960
thousands or tens of thousands of one

1221
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,079
percentage point

1222
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,880
and usually for very trivial reasons and

1223
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:53,760
so

1224
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,520
you know you look at this and you know

1225
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:57,839
it's not the guns per se

1226
00:42:01,430 --> 00:42:00,240
it's who has the guns that they're

1227
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:01,440
concerned about

1228
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:04,960
and people who are engaged in violence

1229
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:07,599
when the police officer comes upon the

1230
00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:09,119
person

1231
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:10,640
you know the police aren't just shooting

1232
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,319
people who are just walking down the

1233
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:14,400
street because they think that these

1234
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:17,040
guys might have a gun what's happening

1235
00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:18,319
is they come up

1236
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:20,240
upon a person who's involved in the

1237
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:22,160
crime uh

1238
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,599
you know and or is running from a crime

1239
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:27,520
and when they're trying to stop that

1240
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:29,680
individual the individual brandishes a

1241
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:30,400
weapon

1242
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:32,400
and that's overwhelmingly the types of

1243
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:33,839
cases where you have

1244
00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:37,119
uh shootings occur you know it it's

1245
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:38,680
you look at these cases and

1246
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:41,520
overwhelmingly uh these police

1247
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:44,160
shootings were justified you do have

1248
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,839
situations where they thought he was

1249
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:47,520
reaching for a gun and it turned out he

1250
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,079
wasn't

1251
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:50,160
reaching for it always i just said

1252
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:51,119
overwhelmingly

1253
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,720
i agree with you you know so so

1254
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,160
well sorry i was gonna use that just to

1255
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:58,079
lead to a question which is

1256
00:43:01,430 --> 00:43:00,640
the rules of engagement for police in

1257
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:01,440
the u.s

1258
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,920
um i think they're more liberal toward

1259
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:05,359
police in the u.s than other countries i

1260
00:43:08,550 --> 00:43:06,160
don't know that

1261
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:08,560
for sure but this idea that if he has a

1262
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,000
reasonable fear

1263
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:12,880
uh you're basically free to shoot to

1264
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,240
kill and you know they seem

1265
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:16,480
it seems that the police are trained

1266
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:18,160
essentially to shoot to kill they don't

1267
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:19,599
aim for the leg

1268
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:21,599
um so do you have any problems with the

1269
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:22,800
rules of engagement that

1270
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:26,640
u.s police tend to follow no i mean

1271
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:28,480
the thing that's bizarre that we have

1272
00:43:32,309 --> 00:43:31,040
right now is in this defund the police

1273
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,319
movement one of the

1274
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:34,560
parts of it is they want to take away

1275
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,880
non-lethal methods that police have to

1276
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,000
go and deal with

1277
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,640
criminals which is why do they think

1278
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,880
these non-lethal methods got developed

1279
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:44,079
to begin with

1280
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:46,000
the reason why the non-lethal methods

1281
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,319
got developed to begin with was to make

1282
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:50,240
it so that the police didn't have to

1283
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:51,760
shoot somebody like that but of course

1284
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:52,560
you're not going to

1285
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:54,640
aim for a leg or something it's much

1286
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:56,240
harder to go and hit that particularly

1287
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,359
if it's moving

1288
00:44:00,870 --> 00:43:59,280
you're trying to go and hit the person's

1289
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:00,880
center mass where you're

1290
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,720
more likely to hit him and not have the

1291
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:05,119
bullet go flying away and maybe hit

1292
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,280
somebody else down the street that's

1293
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,520
there um

1294
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:12,720
so you know this movement that we see

1295
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:16,319
to get rid of non-lethal methods uh

1296
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:18,880
you know from anything from tear gas to

1297
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:19,760
pepper spray

1298
00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:22,640
to pepper balls or other types of things

1299
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:23,359
has

1300
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,640
multiple impacts you look at riots well

1301
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,079
what does that do it makes it much

1302
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:29,760
harder for police to engage

1303
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:32,800
in people and riots if they do have to

1304
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:33,440
engage

1305
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:34,880
they're going to be more likely to

1306
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:36,800
involve lethal force

1307
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,720
but it also means that the police as

1308
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,560
they say aren't going to engage

1309
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,319
and that makes it so that the riots are

1310
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:44,240
more likely to be out of control than

1311
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:46,960
they would have been otherwise

1312
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:49,760
so the nra gets criticized for never

1313
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,200
seeming to support

1314
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,240
any restriction on guns it's the camel's

1315
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:56,319
nose under the tent or what have you

1316
00:45:02,069 --> 00:44:59,599
where are you on common sense

1317
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:02,079
gun laws is there any common sense gun

1318
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:04,319
laws that you support

1319
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:06,800
to me it's a question of what works but

1320
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:08,480
the thing that's interesting to me

1321
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:12,079
is what gun control advocates insist on

1322
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:13,599
i'll give you an example

1323
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:15,760
everybody wants to stop criminals uh

1324
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:16,960
from getting guns

1325
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,079
okay background checks makes sense but

1326
00:45:22,150 --> 00:45:21,839
the current background check system we

1327
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,160
have

1328
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:24,720
is a complete mess and gun control

1329
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:26,400
advocates refuse

1330
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:28,960
to fix it in any way so for example one

1331
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:32,400
of the claims that you frequently see

1332
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:35,200
is the claim that they're three million

1333
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:37,040
dangerous prohibited people that have

1334
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,960
been stopped from buying guns because of

1335
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,560
background checks

1336
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:43,119
that's simply false what they should say

1337
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:44,400
is there have been three and a half

1338
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:44,960
million

1339
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:49,040
initial denials and something over 99

1340
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:51,920
of those were mistakes it's one thing to

1341
00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:54,079
stop a felon from buying a gun

1342
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,920
it's another thing to stop somebody

1343
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:58,079
simply because they have a similar name

1344
00:46:01,589 --> 00:46:00,400
to a phone from buying a gun and the

1345
00:46:03,870 --> 00:46:01,599
problem is

1346
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:03,880
is that the people who get stopped are

1347
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:05,520
overwhelmingly

1348
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:08,880
law abiding good black males

1349
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:11,680
and hispanic males who simply have a

1350
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:12,160
name

1351
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:13,920
similar to somebody that the government

1352
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,160
wants to stop and there's no reason why

1353
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,000
we should be having these mistakes

1354
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:20,240
when you go and you buy a gun you fill

1355
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,880
out something called a 4473

1356
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,560
you put down your name your social

1357
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:26,400
security number your address your

1358
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,880
birthday your race your eye color

1359
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:30,400
and you think the government's using all

1360
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:32,240
that information what they end up using

1361
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:32,560
is

1362
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:35,359
roughly phonetically similar names and

1363
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:36,800
similar birthdays

1364
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,079
and you get a lot of mistakes you know i

1365
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:42,160
i don't know if you own a company or you

1366
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:43,599
know people who do

1367
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:45,440
but if they do criminal background

1368
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:48,480
checks uh background checks on employees

1369
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,560
go and suggest to them that they look at

1370
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,200
roughly phonetically similar names

1371
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:54,960
when they do the background checks on

1372
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:56,079
their employees they're going to look at

1373
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,760
you like you're from mars

1374
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,880
because they know that there's going to

1375
00:47:03,990 --> 00:47:01,040
be lots of mistakes if they go and do

1376
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:04,000
background checks like that if if

1377
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:05,599
private companies when they do

1378
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,040
background checks had an

1379
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:10,079
error rate that was 100 the error rate

1380
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:11,599
that the federal government has

1381
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:13,839
in doing background checks under federal

1382
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,920
law those companies would be sued out of

1383
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:17,280
existence

1384
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:20,480
there's a simple fix simply require that

1385
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,920
the federal government has to do

1386
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:23,040
background checks

1387
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:24,640
in the same way that the federal

1388
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:26,079
government mandates

1389
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:27,760
that private companies have to do

1390
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,000
background checks which is basically

1391
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:32,480
just require that they use all the

1392
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:34,240
information that they have

1393
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:37,599
and use it exactly as it is but you know

1394
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:40,319
right now if you have two people first

1395
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:41,520
of all they don't even look at middle

1396
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:42,160
names

1397
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,960
but let's say you have one person whose

1398
00:47:49,030 --> 00:47:46,559
last name is smith with an

1399
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:49,040
i and another person whose last name is

1400
00:47:52,630 --> 00:47:50,800
smith with a y and an e

1401
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,640
as far as the background check system is

1402
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:54,880
concerned that's the same person

1403
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,880
um the other is this how long has this

1404
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:58,079
been going on for i've never heard of

1405
00:48:01,910 --> 00:47:58,880
this

1406
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:01,920
an article

1407
00:48:06,069 --> 00:48:03,599
a couple years ago in the new york times

1408
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:06,079
where i went through examples of all the

1409
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:07,680
problems that were with the background

1410
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:08,880
check system

1411
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,119
uh giving examples of these mistakes

1412
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:12,720
that are being made all the time

1413
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,599
now you can appeal the mistakes but the

1414
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:17,680
problem is the vast majority of people

1415
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,200
who go and appeal

1416
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,359
have to go and hire a lawyer and you're

1417
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:23,040
talking about at least three thousand

1418
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:24,640
dollars to go and do it

1419
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,720
and so people tend to have names similar

1420
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,160
to others in their racial groups

1421
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,640
hispanics have names similar hispanics

1422
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:34,319
blacks tend to have names similar to

1423
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:36,880
other blacks

1424
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:39,280
33 percent of black males in the united

1425
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:41,040
states are legally prohibited from

1426
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:42,160
owning a gun

1427
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,720
because of past felony records whose

1428
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:46,640
names are their names most likely to be

1429
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:47,680
confused with

1430
00:48:52,309 --> 00:48:50,640
other law-abiding good black males who

1431
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:52,319
want to go and get a gun to protect

1432
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:54,160
themselves and their families it's

1433
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:57,040
very racist the way this system is set

1434
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:57,440
up but

1435
00:49:01,190 --> 00:49:00,000
if you go and talk to democrats or gun

1436
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:01,200
control advocates

1437
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:03,440
they will fight you tooth and nail

1438
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:05,040
against fixing that

1439
00:49:08,069 --> 00:49:06,720
when the fix knicks bill came up a

1440
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,079
couple years ago

1441
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:11,200
um i was working with

1442
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:14,559
uh senate staffers to try to put an

1443
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:15,839
amendment together

1444
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:18,319
that would fix this essentially just the

1445
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,520
simple thing refi

1446
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,440
requiring the federal government has to

1447
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:23,200
do background checks in the same way

1448
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,720
that the federal government mandates

1449
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:26,160
that private companies do

1450
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:28,720
democrats claimed it was a poison pill

1451
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:30,880
and they would blame republicans then

1452
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:31,200
for

1453
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:33,359
killing the fixed mix bill if they

1454
00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,960
insisted on

1455
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:37,200
having that amendment that was there now

1456
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:38,720
that's not the only problem

1457
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:42,000
with this uh there's a cost when you go

1458
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:45,440
and you buy a new gun uh there's a cost

1459
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,119
to the background check but you don't

1460
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,880
see it because it's in the price of the

1461
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:50,880
gun it's not like a sales tax

1462
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:53,760
that they go and add on top of a gun uh

1463
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:57,119
you look in washington dc it's 125

1464
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,839
per gun to go and transfer gun in new

1465
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:00,800
york city

1466
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:03,040
uh there's one gun store that will do it

1467
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:04,319
for 125

1468
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:07,520
others will do it for like 175 or 200.

1469
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:10,559
you can find uh some places like oregon

1470
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,040
where it's as low as 55

1471
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,079
california is an outlier california

1472
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:18,240
the cost of doing a background check on

1473
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,040
a private transfer of a gun is 20

1474
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,280
but that's not the true cost there's a

1475
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:24,960
price control there

1476
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,000
that the gun uh dealers are not allowed

1477
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:30,079
to charge more than twenty dollars their

1478
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:32,480
true cost is probably something around

1479
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:33,760
seventy dollars

1480
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,160
but if they refuse to do that even

1481
00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:37,920
though they're losing fifty dollars on

1482
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:38,319
each

1483
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,800
transfer that they do there uh they will

1484
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:42,800
lose their license and not be allowed to

1485
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:44,960
sell guns in california just a way

1486
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,359
california tries to make it costly to be

1487
00:50:52,150 --> 00:50:48,880
a gun dealer

1488
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:52,160
in the state and so the problem that you

1489
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:53,040
have

1490
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,640
is that this this type of tax

1491
00:50:59,910 --> 00:50:58,720
may not stop you or i from being able to

1492
00:51:01,990 --> 00:50:59,920
go and buy a gun

1493
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,000
but if you have to pay a hundred dollars

1494
00:51:05,670 --> 00:51:03,839
just for the background check

1495
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:05,680
the very people that i talked about

1496
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,599
before who benefit the most the people

1497
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:08,960
who are most likely

1498
00:51:13,190 --> 00:51:11,200
victims of violent crime adding a

1499
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,200
hundred dollars to their ability to go

1500
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,880
and buy a gun to protect them

1501
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:17,040
themselves and their families may make

1502
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,480
the difference between whether or not

1503
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,400
they're legally able to obtain a gun

1504
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,280
i'll just give you one quick example you

1505
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:25,280
look at washington dc and many of these

1506
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:26,319
other states

1507
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:29,839
the background check is on each gun

1508
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,240
not on the transfer so let's say you and

1509
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,319
i lived in washington dc

1510
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:36,000
and i was going to go and give you four

1511
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:37,359
guns

1512
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:40,960
i'd have to pay 500 to do it

1513
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:43,839
but it's just you it's just one person

1514
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:45,920
what sense does that make to have to do

1515
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:47,680
a separate background check

1516
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:50,079
on each gun that's transferred rather

1517
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:50,960
than just on

1518
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:52,960
the person who's obtaining the gun

1519
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:55,040
that's there it's just an example of how

1520
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,319
they go out of their way

1521
00:52:01,829 --> 00:51:59,200
just to make it costly for people to be

1522
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:01,839
able to go and buy guns

1523
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:04,079
last two questions how do we get guns

1524
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,549
not rocket science you know you people

1525
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:11,760
talk about all the

1526
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:14,240
murders and stuff that occur in chicago

1527
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:14,880
okay

1528
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:17,040
well there's a simple reason for that

1529
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:18,559
you know uh

1530
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,559
uh two years ago only about 13 percent

1531
00:52:27,190 --> 00:52:25,280
of murders in chicago resulted in an

1532
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:27,200
arrest

1533
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:31,359
okay nationwide it's over 70 percent

1534
00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:33,119
you know if you're not going to arrest

1535
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:35,359
people for going to me and the rate

1536
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:38,559
for for gang murder is even

1537
00:52:44,829 --> 00:52:42,160
lower than it is for the average there

1538
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:44,839
and they don't even prosecute all them

1539
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:46,720
successfully for the ones that they

1540
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,520
catch

1541
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:49,520
so you're talking about gang murders

1542
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:51,680
someplace in the single digit range two

1543
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:52,640
years ago

1544
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:55,520
were being convicted for murder another

1545
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:56,640
over 90

1546
00:53:00,069 --> 00:52:59,119
are getting away with it right so it's

1547
00:53:01,910 --> 00:53:00,079
not rocket

1548
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,920
science it's gone up a little bit last

1549
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:04,400
year uh they had a 20

1550
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,920
arrest rate but um but it's gone down

1551
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:08,800
again i'm sure

1552
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:12,319
this year and uh uh you know it's not

1553
00:53:16,549 --> 00:53:14,240
rocket science if you don't

1554
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:16,559
arrest people if you don't convict them

1555
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:18,240
if you don't punish them if you don't

1556
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,280
make it risky

1557
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,359
for them going and committing these

1558
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,960
murders guess what

1559
00:53:26,069 --> 00:53:24,720
you're going to have a lot more murders

1560
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,079
and there and it's

1561
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:28,800
simple when you look at chicago you know

1562
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:29,839
what they've done

1563
00:53:33,270 --> 00:53:31,920
to make sure that happens all sorts of

1564
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:33,280
politically correct things

1565
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:37,520
uh i can give you a couple examples um

1566
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,200
under rob and it wasn't always that way

1567
00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:43,680
when mayor daley uh the second mayor

1568
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:45,040
daley took over

1569
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,520
uh the arrest rate for murders in

1570
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:50,000
chicago was 67

1571
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:53,200
when rahm emanuel uh came into office at

1572
00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:54,720
the end of daley's term there

1573
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:57,200
it was down to 30 percent when rahm

1574
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,160
emanuel left office it was down to 20

1575
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:03,200
of murders resulting in an arrest and

1576
00:54:07,589 --> 00:54:06,160
for example for rahm emanuel one of the

1577
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:07,599
things that he did was he made an

1578
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:09,680
agreement with the aclu

1579
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:12,160
that every time a police officer talks

1580
00:54:15,750 --> 00:54:13,359
to somebody

1581
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:15,760
they have to fill out two legal size

1582
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:17,359
pages of forms

1583
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:20,319
with small little you know indents in

1584
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:20,960
there

1585
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,280
that explains who they talk to why they

1586
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:24,880
talk to them what they talk to them

1587
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,800
about how long they talk to him

1588
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:29,280
in excruciating detail there and it

1589
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:30,559
takes something between

1590
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:33,599
45 minutes and an hour or so to go and

1591
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:34,960
fill out those forms so if you're a

1592
00:54:37,990 --> 00:54:36,160
police officer

1593
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:38,000
and you go and talk to four people in

1594
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,200
the morning your

1595
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,599
afternoon is basically taken up with

1596
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:42,559
paperwork

1597
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,720
dealing with the people that you talk to

1598
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,079
when rahm emanuel

1599
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:48,160
became mayor one of the first things he

1600
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:51,280
did was he closed down the gang units

1601
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,920
well guess what if you don't have the

1602
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:55,200
gang units there you're going to have a

1603
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:56,160
lot more gang

1604
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,000
shootings that are going to be there he

1605
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:59,359
closed down

1606
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:01,920
the police bureaus in the highest murder

1607
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:03,520
rates parts of the city

1608
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,559
and transferred police to kind of the

1609
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:08,640
gold coast and other areas

1610
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:11,839
that were there uh you know if you want

1611
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:12,960
to reduce crime

1612
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,520
you want to put police in the high crime

1613
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:17,200
areas that's the way you go about doing

1614
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:17,760
it

1615
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,559
and i mean that's just apparently

1616
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:21,839
apparently black lives

1617
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,720
don't matter in chicago right i mean who

1618
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:26,880
do they think are the victims not only

1619
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:30,079
generally of murder but of these riots

1620
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:31,920
you know these riots where they've

1621
00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:34,240
ordered police to stand down

1622
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,839
where they made it so the police can't

1623
00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:37,440
go and deal with it these riots are

1624
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:39,440
occurring in relatively heavily black

1625
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,240
areas

1626
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,839
many of the businesses there are owned

1627
00:55:45,829 --> 00:55:44,079
by blacks the people who tend to be

1628
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:45,839
employed there are blacks

1629
00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:47,599
the people who tend to shop in those

1630
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,400
stores are overwhelmingly blacks

1631
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,640
who do they think as hurt by all this

1632
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:53,920
violence that's there

1633
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,640
all this destruction okay take any poll

1634
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:58,720
of a law-abiding black citizens they'll

1635
00:56:03,109 --> 00:55:59,760
say they want

1636
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,119
more police not less right

1637
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:05,760
last question kind of hot subject uh

1638
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:07,599
these days is militias

1639
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:10,960
uh private militias and them having guns

1640
00:56:14,789 --> 00:56:14,240
and being mobilized to some small extent

1641
00:56:18,150 --> 00:56:14,799
at least

1642
00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:18,160
so far uh to stop some of these rioters

1643
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,760
and looters is

1644
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:21,920
how do you feel about these militias

1645
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:23,520
when it comes to gun rights and

1646
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,200
their use well i mean

1647
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:29,440
i don't know how much they're organized

1648
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:31,359
what have you i mean obviously you had

1649
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,040
uh uh the situation in kenosha

1650
00:56:41,990 --> 00:56:38,400
where uh this uh kyle written house

1651
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:42,000
uh involved um you know here you had a

1652
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:42,480
kid

1653
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:48,309
facebook groups and others to try to go

1654
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,000
and support police he wanted to become a

1655
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:51,760
police officer himself

1656
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:53,920
uh i think the media has been very

1657
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:55,680
irresponsible i'm calling him a white

1658
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,319
racist

1659
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:58,640
many times on cnn and other places

1660
00:57:03,109 --> 00:56:59,839
apparently

1661
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:03,119
and uh you know would i advise a 17 year

1662
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:03,920
old to go

1663
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:05,680
and get involved in that no i wouldn't

1664
00:57:10,390 --> 00:57:08,400
involve a seven advise a 17 year old

1665
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:10,400
but do you think that militias play a

1666
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:12,240
potentially important role

1667
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:15,839
in law enforcement in america i think

1668
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:17,760
no i mean what i think happens and

1669
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:19,119
something that you've brought up

1670
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:21,839
yourself earlier in the discussion about

1671
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:24,160
beverly hills and what have you having

1672
00:57:26,789 --> 00:57:25,760
people be able to go and protect

1673
00:57:28,549 --> 00:57:26,799
property

1674
00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,559
with guns you know you go back to the

1675
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:29,920
rodney king riots

1676
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:32,160
that you have you know the pictures of

1677
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:33,839
the korean shop

1678
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:35,760
owners that had guns in order to protect

1679
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,280
their property i don't know if i would

1680
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:38,640
have called the militia

1681
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,720
there you have private individuals

1682
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:42,319
trying to protect property

1683
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:45,440
when you had the ferguson riots you had

1684
00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:47,599
private individuals not necessarily even

1685
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:49,440
the ones that owned the stores

1686
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:52,079
in ferguson coming out and trying to

1687
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:53,839
protect some of the stores that were in

1688
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:54,960
their neighborhood

1689
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:57,200
i assume they weren't organized militias

1690
00:58:00,390 --> 00:57:58,319
they were just people

1691
00:58:01,349 --> 00:58:00,400
who were concerned about the violence in

1692
00:58:03,190 --> 00:58:01,359
their city

1693
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:03,200
and wanted to make sure that the stores

1694
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:04,640
and other places that they went

1695
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:06,960
frequently weren't destroyed that were

1696
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,440
there now i'm no problem with that

1697
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,440
with people going doing that if they're

1698
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,440
racist if they're people who are doing

1699
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:15,599
things for bad reasons if they go and

1700
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,079
commit

1701
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,680
violence

1702
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:21,760
they need to be punished and those need

1703
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:23,359
to be under control

1704
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:26,720
but if i have people who you know i

1705
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:29,359
have a store that i would normally go to

1706
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:29,920
and

1707
00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:32,079
it's i'm worried about it being looted

1708
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,040
and destroyed

1709
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:35,599
and not being there uh in the near

1710
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:36,480
future

1711
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:39,200
then you know i can understand somebody

1712
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:41,040
going there in order to try to protect

1713
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:41,359
that

1714
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:43,040
type of thing there well the police the

1715
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:45,040
police proved in los angeles that they

1716
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:46,079
were incapable

1717
00:58:50,069 --> 00:58:49,040
of protecting businesses in santa monica

1718
00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:50,079
and in beverly hills

1719
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:51,440
and in other parts of los angeles they

1720
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:52,400
weren't they weren't capable of

1721
00:58:56,549 --> 00:58:53,839
protecting business

1722
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,559
sure i mean i i spent a good portion of

1723
00:59:00,870 --> 00:58:57,920
my life in los angeles

1724
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:00,880
i went to ucla as an undergraduate and a

1725
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:03,119
graduate student i taught at ucla

1726
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:04,240
business school

1727
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:07,359
uh i was there when they had the riots

1728
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:09,280
that kind of pretty much wiped out

1729
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,119
uh westwood area and uh

1730
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:15,760
you know it'd be great if the police

1731
00:59:18,150 --> 00:59:17,280
were there all the time to protect

1732
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,160
people

1733
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:21,280
uh unfortunately uh police many times

1734
00:59:25,270 --> 00:59:22,799
have their hands tied

1735
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,280
in terms of what they can do and also

1736
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,040
there's just so much going on

1737
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,520
you know we have we have over 600 000

1738
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:31,280
police in the united states for a

1739
00:59:34,870 --> 00:59:32,000
country

1740
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:34,880
that's 330 million people it's simply

1741
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:36,640
impossible no matter how

1742
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:38,480
great the police are for them to be

1743
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:41,040
there all the time to protect everybody

1744
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:42,640
how does that stand on a per capita

1745
00:59:46,630 --> 00:59:44,839
basis by the way compared to european

1746
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,640
countries

1747
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:48,640
uh i don't have that memorized right off

1748
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:49,920
the top

1749
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,799
i know los angeles per capita we are

1750
00:59:57,829 --> 00:59:55,200
very low when you compare us to new york

1751
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,839
well new york yeah no new york at least

1752
01:00:02,710 --> 00:59:59,200
traditionally that's

1753
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:02,720
starting to change but new york has had

1754
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:05,119
one of the highest rates of police

1755
01:00:08,549 --> 01:00:06,960
officers per capita

1756
01:00:10,069 --> 01:00:08,559
in the country and that was basically

1757
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:10,079
giuliani

1758
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,480
getting in there he changed not only the

1759
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:14,319
number of officers but he trained

1760
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:17,040
changed the hiring requirements making

1761
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:18,400
them much stricter

1762
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:20,720
and uh and increased the training for

1763
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:22,720
the officers that were there

1764
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:25,839
and that's one reason why you saw the

1765
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,880
huge drop in violent crime in new york

1766
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:29,839
when he had that

1767
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:32,720
big increase in police officers thank

1768
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:33,520
you again

1769
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,599
to dr john lott you can check out his

1770
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:37,040
book more guns less

1771
01:00:42,230 --> 01:00:40,400
crime on amazon as well as a bunch of

1772
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:42,240
other books that he has written on

1773
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:45,680
the subject he's a true expert on guns

1774
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,559
in america

1775
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:48,480
thank you to our producer michael parker

1776
01:00:53,190 --> 01:00:50,240
thank you to our intern jake

1777
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,200
wall happy election day everyone let's

1778
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:55,359
hope it is a peaceful one

1779
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:57,280
tomorrow thank you for following the

1780
01:01:00,720 --> 01:00:58,640
hidden truth show we'll be back soon

1781
01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:00,730
with another episode

1782
01:01:08,630 --> 01:01:06,870
thank you for listening to the truth

1783
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:08,640
show with jim breslow

1784
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:12,240
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

1785
01:01:15,270 --> 01:01:14,400
follow us on facebook twitter and

1786
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:15,280
instagram

1787
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:17,839
that hit the truth show join us again

1788
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:18,480
next week